Errors Vs Effort

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May 16, 2016
946
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hit - mental errors based on mistaken judgment don't count as errors in the book

Diving for a ball and missing is a Physical error. So, if the hit ball should have been routinely played, it's an error. If ball was hit so hard, it would not be "routine" out, then no error.

For example. Routine fly ball to outfield. Outfielder decides to showboat, and catch ball behind back, and fails. Nothing "routine" about catching the ball behind your back, is this a "mental mistake"? No, it's still a routine fly ball, so it's scored an error.

A mental mistake is throwing to third for a tag out, and failing, vs getting the force out at first.
 
Nov 18, 2015
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Not to nitpick (ok, maybe just a little) - but I don't think "routine" is in the rule book. The standard is "ordinary effort". Trying to catch it behind the back isn't "ordinary effort".

A dribbler to 3B can be considered "routine" - but that's focusing on the ball. The need to charge in 30' to field it bare handed and on the run in order to have a shot at getting the out at 1B requires more than "ordinary effort" - so now you're focusing on the fielder.

As Eric referenced, mental mistakes aren't errors - and I think that may even be specified in a case book or rules clarification (OBR?).

And just to clarify for those new to scorekeeping - the standard should always be based on the level of play - ordinary effort for 10U is much different than an NCAA game.
 
May 16, 2016
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The standard is "ordinary effort".

"Ordinary" vs "Routine" is A LOT of nitpicking. LOL

No, attempting to catch the ball behind your back is not Ordinary, or routine. It's dumb showboating. So is it a mental error, or physical? Does the show boater get an error or not?

No, diving for a ball, and missing, is not showboating, but if the ball could have been fielded with "ordinary" effort, diving for it and missing is an error, at least in my score book it is.
 
Jun 11, 2013
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You all must play on better fields than we do. There is nothing ordinary about catching a short hop liner on our fields.
 
Jun 12, 2015
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This is from the NCAA.

ERROR SECTION 16. a. An error is charged against any fielder (pitchers included) for each misplay that prolongs the time at bat of the batter or the time as a runner of a base runner or permits a runner to advance one or more bases.
Note 1: Slow handling of the ball that does not involve mechanical misplay shall not be construed as an error.
Note 2: It is not necessary that the fielder touch the ball to be charged with an error. If a ground ball goes through a fielder’s legs or a pop fly falls untouched and, in the scorer’s judgment, the fielder could have handled the ball with ordinary effort, an error should be charged.
Note 3: Mental mistakes or misjudgments are not to be scored as errors unless specifically covered in the rules
 
Feb 3, 2011
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So you charge an error for a bad hop and not for a bad decision that costs an out? OK, I don't keep a score book and these books we're discussing are not official, but I see the world differently. If your decision costs my team an out, it's an error. I may tell you to keep being aggressive and not worry about fielding percentage, but it's an error in the book. If the ball hits a rock and bounces away from you when you were in position to make the stop on a tough play, I am not giving an error on that one. Bad bounce vs. costly decision, different philosophies I guess.
Sometimes a ball eats you up. Maybe it was a funky bounce because of the weather or maybe the field wasn't perfect, but regardless, the batter put a ball in play in the direction of the fielder who was not able to convert the out.

There are plenty of exceptions, of course. e.g. There's a beach between home and 3B. Batter drops a bunt into the sand where it stops dead. That's an infield hit, even though the batter was attempting to sacrifice the runner over.

As grcsftbll points out from the NCAA rule book: "Mental mistakes or misjudgments are not to be scored as errors unless specifically covered in the rules". The standard for fly balls to the outfield is different than for infield grounders. Even with a proper read, you cannot assume a ball will be caught. But, if the fielder sprints 60 feet, arrives early, and is camped under a ball that then tips off the glove and falls harmlessly to the ground, that's an error.
 
Jun 29, 2013
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I'm with canyonjoe, these sound like hits to me unless you are playing elite level ball at a higher age. The first sounds like poor judgment at worst, whic his by definition a hit. The second sounds like either poor judgment or a hop that just ate her up. I understand the argument of calling it an error if she didn't charge the ball, but just based on what you wrote, I'm inclined to call it a hit.
 
Jun 6, 2016
2,714
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Chicago
Seeing the plays are necessary here, but based on descriptions I'd go

1) E4. Choosing to dive when you don't need to doesn't protect you from it being an error. It sounds by the description that she tried to turn a routine ground out into a spectacular diving catch. That said, if this was one of those plays where she has no chance to get the out at first if the ball bounces, it's a hit. Had to be there. If poor judgment leads to a physical misplay, it's an error.

2) If the hop clearly is a bad hop, as in it changes direction because it hit a rock or an uneven spot on the field, that's a hit. If she just overplayed the ball, maybe an error.

As others have said, the level of play matters. But, also, the specific scoring doesn't matter at low levels of play. I keep the book for our 10u team, and I don't even mark hits, errors, etc. I just make notes on a legit solid hit to compliment the player later. It doesn't matter at all for scorekeeping purposes if some of those plays are hits or errors.
 
Jan 27, 2019
141
28
Sometimes a ball eats you up. Maybe it was a funky bounce because of the weather or maybe the field wasn't perfect, but regardless, the batter put a ball in play in the direction of the fielder who was not able to convert the out.

There are plenty of exceptions, of course. e.g. There's a beach between home and 3B. Batter drops a bunt into the sand where it stops dead. That's an infield hit, even though the batter was attempting to sacrifice the runner over.

As grcsftbll points out from the NCAA rule book: "Mental mistakes or misjudgments are not to be scored as errors unless specifically covered in the rules". The standard for fly balls to the outfield is different than for infield grounders. Even with a proper read, you cannot assume a ball will be caught. But, if the fielder sprints 60 feet, arrives early, and is camped under a ball that then tips off the glove and falls harmlessly to the ground, that's an error.

Was this an NCAA game? I don't know. Whatever the case, diving to make a play tougher than it needs to be is an error in MY book. Play the hop and get the out at first. If your actions cost me an out it's an E. Again, I'm an umpire, I don't keep score books or care what they say as long as they agree on the inning and score at the end of the game.

As to your scenario of an outfielder camping under the ball and it tipping off her glove, most likely a mental error, misjudged the timing of the falling ball. The entire scoring system is really somewhat subjective anyway. There are guidelines in place but you may rule one way and someone else rule another, obviously, look at this thread. I'm just saying, it does not seem appropriate to punish a girl's fielding percentage because the ball hit a rock and skipped away from her and not punish a girl's percentage when she dove for a ball that could've been an out if she plays the hop and makes the throw. Just my $0.02. Probably not worth that much
 

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