Batters Box

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Jun 6, 2016
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Bobby,

Do you think the entire batter's box is in foul territory?

(By the way, for the person who posted the image of the batters box earlier, the point was good, but those batter's box dimensions are not correct)
 

2br02b

Trabant swing
Jul 25, 2017
303
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The ball is hit nearly straight down into the front of the right box and is spinning in place, and the right handed batter kicks it on the way to first.

How could you not call that out if the front of the box is fair territory?
 
Jan 27, 2019
141
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Schrodinger asided, agreed that the ball is fair until it becomes foul when it hits the batter in the batters box. Please cite the rule that specifically says what happens when the batter runner is in the batters box and touches the ball.
And maybe Schrodinger does apply because the status of a ball is determined at the time it is observed or touched or comes to rest, thus a fair ball over foul territory that is touched becomes a foul ball but may continue to be a fair ball unless it is touched and may remain fair if not touched and lands in foul territory but bounds into fair territory, then rolls back into foul territory, over and over again, without passing first or third base... the status of which might be determined when it hits the batter who is still in the batters box, thus preventing them from becoming a batter runner because the ball is foul and the batter cant be a batter runner if she hasnt hit a fair ball.....per the rule.
So there may be a third state because there are fair balls, foul balls, and trans balls....fair balls that become foul balls via reality collapsing umpires.
Notice also that the umpire won't call a ball fair no matter what, but calls it foul immediately upon it becoming foul...like when it hits the batter in the batters box.
Finally, let's do this, is there a case where the batter is hit by the ball while in the batters box and in fair territory and the ball is called foul?

First, there needs to be a reason for the ball becoming foul such as
the batter touching it while she was still in the batter box. The understanding lies when answering the question, "why mention the batters box at all when referring to a batter or batter runner if the sole determination of whether touching the ball results in an out or foul ball is dependent on whether they are in foul or fair territory? " If the location of the batter in relation to the foul line is the determining factor, then the batters box is irrelevant. ....and the ball is immediately fair upon being struck by the bat and the only sanctuary for the batter runner is foul territory? Especially if the ball being immediately fair upon being struck results in the batter becoming a batter runner and that fact denying any sanctuary of the batters box because she is no longer a batter.
The batter becomes a batter runner after she hits a fair ball and that allows her to run the bases. If she hits a ball and it is in fair territory, she isn't a batter runner until the ball is fair which is determined after other requirements are met.... not getting hit by the ball while in the batters box, the ball remaining in fair territory upon coming to rest, the ball being touched by a player in fair territory, the ball being in fair territory when reaching first or third base..... if these requirements aren't met, the batter doesn't become a batter runner and isn't allowed to run the bases.

Normally in a situation like this the respondent answers the questions with some follow up explanation if pertinent. In this instance you ramble on about what makes the ball fair. The ball is fair if it is between the foul lines regardless of its position relative to the batter's box. Something happens to the ball to cause it to become foul but the only requirements for fair is that it lands between the foul lines before it reaches first or third and does not go beyond those lines before first or third.

I'll answer the questions:
1) No, if she reaches first I will not call her back because she hit a fair ball
2) She became the batter-runner as soon as she hit a fair ball. The ball is fair, we now have a batter runner so rule 8-2 article 7 would apply because the batter's box is not mentioned in the discussion regarding the batter-runner making contact with a fair ball before she reaches first base.

You wanted the rule, there's the rule. I have a feeling you will not like it, call the game as you see fit. But you can see that the rules do not agree with you.
 
Jul 29, 2013
1,199
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Bobby,

Do you think the entire batter's box is in foul territory?

(By the way, for the person who posted the image of the batters box earlier, the point was good, but those batter's box dimensions are not correct)
No, part of the batters box is in foul territory and part is in fair territory.
 
Jul 29, 2013
1,199
63
Normally in a situation like this the respondent answers the questions with some follow up explanation if pertinent. In this instance you ramble on about what makes the ball fair. The ball is fair if it is between the foul lines regardless of its position relative to the batter's box. Something happens to the ball to cause it to become foul but the only requirements for fair is that it lands between the foul lines before it reaches first or third and does not go beyond those lines before first or third.

I'll answer the questions:
1) No, if she reaches first I will not call her back because she hit a fair ball
2) She became the batter-runner as soon as she hit a fair ball. The ball is fair, we now have a batter runner so rule 8-2 article 7 would apply because the batter's box is not mentioned in the discussion regarding the batter-runner making contact with a fair ball before she reaches first base.

You wanted the rule, there's the rule. I have a feeling you will not like it, call the game as you see fit. But you can see that the rules do not agree with you.
The batter becomes a batter runner and is allowed to run the bases..... when she hits a fair ball. A ball that lands in the fair territory portion of the batters box is a fair ball when it is touched by a player or comes to rest. The same ball that lands in the fair territory of the batters box can become foul if it then rolls into foul territory and is touched or comes to a rest and the batter doesn't become a batter runner who is allowed to run the bases. The same ball that lands in the fair territory of the batters box and then is touched by the batter, becomes a foul ball and the batter doesnt become a batter runner and isn't allowed to run the bases.

In your interpretation, a batted ball is immediately a fair ball and the batter becomes a batter runner who is allowed to run the bases regardless of any ensuing action. I disagree and I've seen many umpires interpret the rules that same as I have.
 
May 29, 2015
3,731
113
Right handed batter hits the ball directly down into the front, fair portion of the left handed batter’s box. The ball sticks and spins in fair territory but is not moving from that spot. What do you have?

Batter runner then breaks for first and kicks the ball from the left handed batter’s box. Now what do you have?
 
Jul 29, 2013
1,199
63
Normally in a situation like this the respondent answers the questions with some follow up explanation if pertinent. In this instance you ramble on about what makes the ball fair. The ball is fair if it is between the foul lines regardless of its position relative to the batter's box. Something happens to the ball to cause it to become foul but the only requirements for fair is that it lands between the foul lines before it reaches first or third and does not go beyond those lines before first or third.

I'll answer the questions:
1) No, if she reaches first I will not call her back because she hit a fair ball
2) She became the batter-runner as soon as she hit a fair ball. The ball is fair, we now have a batter runner so rule 8-2 article 7 would apply because the batter's box is not mentioned in the discussion regarding the batter-runner making contact with a fair ball before she reaches first base.

You wanted the rule, there's the rule. I have a feeling you will not like it, call the game as you see fit. But you can see that the rules do not agree with you.
Answer to your question... obviously she isn't out because she hit a fair ball.
 
Jul 29, 2013
1,199
63
Right handed batter hits the ball directly down into the front, fair portion of the left handed batter’s box. The ball sticks and spins in fair territory but is not moving from that spot. What do you have?

Batter runner then breaks for first and kicks the ball from the left handed batter’s box. Now what do you have?
The ball is fair if it stops spinning or is touched by a player and is still in fair territory regardless of the batters box.
If she kicks the ball, she's out because she left the batters box and touched a ball in fair territory. See batters box definition...."the batters box is the area, including the lines, in which the batter is positioned while batting" and isn't the other left handed area and lines because she wasn't positioned there while batting.
Are you trying to find a way to be technically correct? I really don't think the original poster meant that the batter left one batters box and had entered the other box and touched the ball.

Hows this for a technicality, see definition of foul ball....."a foul ball is a batted ball that: f. touches a batter while the batter is in the batters box."
Looks like the batted ball can become foul before the batter becomes a batter runner after all. The only requirement is that it be a batted ball. The whole idea of the ball being fair as soon as it leaves the bat and the batter instantly becoming a batter runner is out the window.

BTW, where did the whole idea of the ball being fair until foul come from? Is there a definition or a rule?

One more question.... a batted ball is caught in foul territory. Is it a fair or foul ball? It is first touched in foul territory.
 
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Jul 29, 2013
1,199
63
Bobby Shirer has invented Schrodinger’s Ball. It is neither foul nor fair but is both simultaneously. That is, until the umpire calls it, at which point realities collapse and the ball must be either fair or foul. More on that in a moment ...

NFHS citations were posted back in post #8 on the first page.

... Back to our Schrodinger’s Ball. A batted ball exists as a fair ball until it becomes a foul ball, whether it exists in fair territory or foul territory. Ergo, all balls start as a fair ball.

Three things can happen to that fair ball. It may:
1) remain a fair ball
2) become a foul ball (by hitting the batter in the box, stopping in foul territory, contacting a defensive player over foul territory, etc.)
3) become a dead ball by being touched inappropriately by the offense ... NOT like that ya’ perv!

At the point that an umpire makes a call, our Schrodinger’s Ball becomes one of those three things. Until then, our mysterious “third state on non-being” actually is a fair ball.

(A mixed attempt at humor and education. This post was brought to you by the letter K.)
Upon further review....looks like we have Schrodingers ball after all..... you're wrong about a batted ball being a fair ball until it becomes a foul ball. See the definition of fair ball.
So this makes the whole batter runner thing moot because the batted ball must be acted upon to become fair and the batter becomes a batter runner only if she hits a fair ball. So if the first action after the ball is batted is the batter touching it while in the confines of the batters box, the ball is foul.
Maybe the term "batter runner" differentiates between a batter who has finished her turn at bat and is running the bases and a runner who was on base at the time the ball was batted.
 
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