Basic arm-body synchronization

[Nunthia1914]

Pauly girl

Had a recent question by a parent about landing posture. Note that all the demo pitchers Sluggers has put up have a posture tilt behind vertical at time of foot plant. Two primary reasons for this:
1. To help brace for the front side resistance required to transform linear energy into rotational energy
2. To enable the pitcher to have a posture for an efficient riseball......but do understand that if the pitcher is throwing a dropball the upper torso will "hinge" into a near vertical posture by time of release. The reason so many pitchers have difficulty throwing both rise and drop is because they either don't land with tilt......or they land with tilt but don't understand how to "hinge" at the waist for a drop.

The Pauly girl's arm comes down into her hip just exactly like I do when I pitch. I am so happy that my motion is comparable to a first class pitcher.

 

[Nunthia1914]

Hand under the ball at 9? Is 9 behing the body?

BM stated in the IR thread that "palm to the sky" position at 9:00 is the most critical position in fastpitch.


The reason it is so critical is that it allows the maximum amount of arm rotation possible to generate optimum spin and velocity to the pitch. IMO, getting the palm to the sky is an ideal position but most pitchers fail to achieve this position and are more like "palm to 3rd base" at 9:00. They can still pitch effectively with the palm to 3rd base but are not maximizing their potential.

If you read (or reread) post #4 below you will get your answer:

http://www.discussfastpitch.com/softball-pitching/1348-internal-rotation.html

I have always referred that to 3. I come in with hand slightly under the ball. If throwing a rise then then hand stays open at release then snaps under as in ER. But if the girls come under too long then do they then have a little problem getting the hand behind the ball to make it drop.?

 

[Nunthia1914]

Closing the hip

Sure...

Think about pitching as a funnel. Energy/momentum is generated by the various parts of the body...the legs, the arms, and the torso. All this energy is to be funneled into the ball. Additionally, you want all the energy to be used to propel the ball straight to the target.

Suppose a girl does the walk through drill and is moving forward or bringing her right leg (for a rightie) around. What does that mean? It means than not all of the energy was transferred to the ball during the pitch...there is some "left over". By requiring the pitcher to stand on one foot after the throw, the pitcher can tell *ON HER OWN* whether she transferred all the energy to the ball.

Suppose a girl does the walk through drill and falls to the right (for a rightie) and is "catching" herself with her right foot? That means that the momentum she generated is going at angle to the plate, meaning that she isn't throwing the ball as fast as she can.

When pitching, you will see some good pitchers "close" after release (Yukiko Ueno is a prime example). The close is done after all the momentum is transferred to the ball. (Slow motion videos of this have been a god-send.)

The question then comes up: Baseball pitchers rotate and fall forward after the throw. Shouldn't softball pitchers do the same thing?

First, go watch a video of baseball pitchers and study exactly what happens. You see the same basic pattern a softball pitcher uses: Generation of energy with the body, and then a "stop" of the pitcher at release.

After release, the baseball pitcher moves. Why? The release of a pitched baseball ball is in front of, above and two feet or more to the right (for a rightie) of the center of gravity of the pitcher. This creates all kinds of torque on the body, pulling the body to the left (for a rightie). And, of course, since the pitcher is throwing down hill as well, he will fall forward. (This isn't rocket science...just watch a baseball pitching video.)

In softball pitching, the release is below the center of gravity of the pitcher, and almost dead center (on the X and Y axis) with the center of gravity of the pitcher. The release point is inches, not feet, from the center of gravity. If thrown correctly, the forces are moving the pitching toward the plate, not to the left or right. There are no forces requiring the body to twist.

Sounds good to me closing the hip like Ueno does. Here in Indiana some girls do not close their hip much.

 

[Nunthia1914]

3,6,9.12

This thread is *NOT* for the advanced pitching coaches. One of the goals of this forum is for parents to learn enough to teach their DD the basics. If the DD likes pitching and has some talent for it, then the parents should find a good pitching coach.

This thread is for new parents trying to teach their DD how to pitch. This thread is about basic, elementary body position and arm position.

In pitching, there has to be a close synchronization of the body and arm. If the arm and body are not in synch, power will be lost, reducing the speed of the thrown ball.

This is just the basics. There is more to arm-body synchronization, but for a newbie, this is what you need to know. As a former Crazy Daddy, if I had known some basic information when my DD started pitching, it would have saved me money, time and grief.

Rick Pauly has studied this extensively. He is the true expert on this.

First, you need to understand "the clock" of pitching The attached photo shows the great Sarah Pauly with a clock around the photo. The picture shows Sarah's right arm at 12 o'clock (simply referred to as "12") and her left arm at 3 o'clock.

For a right handed pitcher, the progression is viewed at 3 (right arm pointing at catcher), 12 (ball at highest position), 9 (right arm pointing at 2B) and 6 (at ball release).

The elite and most "good" pitchers are very consistent as to arm position with respect to the body position.

Looks like I got it reversed for some reason I always used 3 behind the body instead of 9

 

[Nunthia1914]

I am trying understand. It looks like her hips are closed and shoulders facing the catcher called front face. She is not as open as Amanda nor is Pauly. When the arm is at the side and on release should not the shoulder be further back like Amanda's which is about 45? A lot of girls do close early and that is not easy to fix.

 

[Nunthia1914]

To compliment the emphasis that sluggers and Rick have placed on the importance of body position at LFT (mainly front side resistance), here is a gif of Sarah Pauly that demonstrates the transfer of energy from linear to rotational.

looks like all she is doing is rotational not much linear movement of hip.

 

[Nunthia1914]

suggestion for sluggers

why don't you put a photo of Adam Folkard on this thread and see how much he closes.

 

[Nunthia1914]

Sure...

Think about pitching as a funnel. Energy/momentum is generated by the various parts of the body...the legs, the arms, and the torso. All this energy is to be funneled into the ball. Additionally, you want all the energy to be used to propel the ball straight to the target.

Suppose a girl does the walk through drill and is moving forward or bringing her right leg (for a rightie) around. What does that mean? It means than not all of the energy was transferred to the ball during the pitch...there is some "left over". By requiring the pitcher to stand on one foot after the throw, the pitcher can tell *ON HER OWN* whether she transferred all the energy to the ball.

Suppose a girl does the walk through drill and falls to the right (for a rightie) and is "catching" herself with her right foot? That means that the momentum she generated is going at angle to the plate, meaning that she isn't throwing the ball as fast as she can.

When pitching, you will see some good pitchers "close" after release (Yukiko Ueno is a prime example). The close is done after all the momentum is transferred to the ball. (Slow motion videos of this have been a god-send.)

The question then comes up: Baseball pitchers rotate and fall forward after the throw. Shouldn't softball pitchers do the same thing?

First, go watch a video of baseball pitchers and study exactly what happens. You see the same basic pattern a softball pitcher uses: Generation of energy with the body, and then a "stop" of the pitcher at release.

After release, the baseball pitcher moves. Why? The release of a pitched baseball ball is in front of, above and two feet or more to the right (for a rightie) of the center of gravity of the pitcher. This creates all kinds of torque on the body, pulling the body to the left (for a rightie). And, of course, since the pitcher is throwing down hill as well, he will fall forward. (This isn't rocket science...just watch a baseball pitching video.)

In softball pitching, the release is below the center of gravity of the pitcher, and almost dead center (on the X and Y axis) with the center of gravity of the pitcher. The release point is inches, not feet, from the center of gravity. If thrown correctly, the forces are moving the pitching toward the plate, not to the left or right. There are no forces requiring the body to twist.

Could you please further detail below the center of gravity. If the pitcher releases the ball at the hip which is behind the center of gravity then how to you get below? You also say there are no forces requiring the body to twist. Could you by any chance put on one of the pitchers like the game tonight LSU playing Florida. It looks to me like the pitchers are firing their hip in which you have to twist to get that action. Thanks.

 

[Nunthia1914]

Hinge at the waist?

Had a recent question by a parent about landing posture. Note that all the demo pitchers Sluggers has put up have a posture tilt behind vertical at time of foot plant. Two primary reasons for this:
1. To help brace for the front side resistance required to transform linear energy into rotational energy
2. To enable the pitcher to have a posture for an efficient riseball......but do understand that if the pitcher is throwing a dropball the upper torso will "hinge" into a near vertical posture by time of release. The reason so many pitchers have difficulty throwing both rise and drop is because they either don't land with tilt......or they land with tilt but don't understand how to "hinge" at the waist for a drop.

Do you mean by tilt, weight back or weight back and tilt to the pitching arm side of the body like right for righties etc.
as for the drop what do you mean "hinge" at the waist for a drop. What is hinging at the waist?

 

[Nunthia1914]

Great thread Sluggers,

I don't want to see this get over complicated but I have to ask. If ball facing third is good at 9, where does facing the sky come in? Would this be considered a more advance move, personal preference or body type? As I have said, don't want to over complicate or cause a big debate but some clarification would be appreciated. I know what Bill teaches, I also know what BM like to see. I believe that with young girls, keeping them from pushing, should be the key early on. I like you almost tried to break my dd at an early age because she was not pushing. Now that she is getting older finding more speed and better spin are at the forefront and every little bit helps.[/QUOte

There is no facing the sky what your DD is doing is about as good as it gets.. As for Hillhouse, if you know what he teaches I would appreciate if you would tell me what you know. Thanks.